genealogy in Świdnica and Rybnik

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  • #28387
    andykraut
    Użytkownik

    Hello
    I need help with my genealogy on my father’s side.
    I have the following information:
    -1750 Birth of Johann Rudolf von Kottulinsky (my great-great-great grandfather) in Ribneck in Upper Silesia (info from his death certificate). Died in Świdnica in 1796. Married to Theresia Hedwig von Hubendorf. Their daughter Wihelmine Rosine was born in Świdnica in 1794. In the death certificate of Johann Rudolf v. Kottulinsky also stated that he was a captain in the Steinwehr Regiment and that he had died of inflammatory fever.
    -Wilhelmine married Carl (Ferdinand) Krause and my great-great grandfather Carl Feodor Krause was born in Świdnica in 1821. Wihelmine died in Świdnica in 1826.

    I’ve already found out a lot, but so much is still missing. I assigned the place Ribneck to the town of Rybnik in Upper Silesia. Johann Rudolf is Catholic and I don’t know if I can even find a church book entry in Rybnik about 1750, I’ve searched the Internet a lot. I also lack information about Theresia von Hubendorf or Carl Krause (the father of Carl Feodor Krause), here I only know that Carl was  cavalry captain. I saved everything I found on birth certificates or in Google.

    I thank you in advance for tips or good advice.

    Best regards Andrea

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    #28390
    Historyk85
    Użytkownik

    Hi Andrea,

    In response to your post, I can provide you with some information.

    The list of the Silesian nobility drawn up in 1752 lists only two families bearing the surname von Hubendorff (actually Huebner von Hubendorff), namely:

    Carl Joseph von Hubendorff; born around 1718, owner of the village of Schöneiche (Landkreis Neumarkt), currently Proszków, Lower Silesia. In 1752 he had a 5-year-old son, Joseph Humbert. The wife of Carl Joseph in 1756 was Maria von Ehrenschild.

    Anna Maria von Hubendorff; born around 1710, owner of the village of Zaumgarten (Landkreis Breslau), currently Chrzanów, Lower Silesia. In 1752 she had three sons: Mathias 22 years old; Paulus 20 years old; Ignatius 18 years old.

    In addition, based on information from armorials known that in 1718 Heinrich Wilhelm Huebner von Hubendorff was the owner of Kadłub (German: Kadlau) and Jabłonka (German: Goebel) (Landkreis Neumarkt).

    I would advise you to check the parishes to which the mentioned villages belonged, it is possible that Theresia Hedwig von Hubendorff was baptized in one of them.

    The name von Kottulinsky appears more often, but I have not found Johann Rudolf anywhere, who should be included in the list, since he was born around 1750. However, I note that the list is certainly not complete and does not include all families, which I confirmed by verifying the list content with church records.

    The census of the nobility basically contains only data on men, women appear only when they were owners of landed goods.

    Baptism records from Rybnik since 1638 can be found in the Archdiocese Archives in Katowice.
    https://archiwum.archidiecezjakatowicka.pl/en

    Tomorrow I will check my other materials, and if I find anything, I’ll let you know.

    Regards,
    Andrzej

    #28391
    andykraut
    Użytkownik

    Hello Andrzej

    Thank you so much. This is really great, escpecially about Hubendorf,it is difficult to find something about them.Now there is a lot of new information, I can work with. There is also not many information what happen to Theresia, I know she was there when Carl Feodor´s brother was born, I found her name as Theresia v. Kottulinsky (grandmother it was stated on the church entry of the birth entry). I am so excited with all the news. I was also thinking about to find information about Johann Rudolf in the regiment Steinwehr, but there is not much I can find on the Internet. I am not 100% sure about that the town Ribneck is Rybnik, but it is the closet I found in Upper Slesia. The most information I found from ancestry.com and I have copied the birth/marriage/death certificates. I will upload them her with my entry. Best regards Andrea Krause

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    #28394
    andykraut
    Użytkownik

    Here is the death certificat v. Johann Rudolf v.Kottulinsky and the birth certificate von Carl Feodor Krause (only a part file because the whole entry is too big)

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    #28407
    Historyk85
    Użytkownik

    There is a problem with the forum and my message cannot be seen.

    #28408
    Historyk85
    Użytkownik

    Hello Andrea,

    You are very lucky, because from the death certificate Johann Rudolf von Kottulinsky you can learn a lot about the course of his military service, namely: at the age of 14 he started his military career, his first commander was von Sass / von Saß for 1½ years (around 1764 – 1765), then he served under von Tauentzien for 2 years (between 1765 – 1767) and finally under von Steinwehr for 29 years (1767 – 1796). Military units had fixed numbers, but customarily bore the surname of the current commander.

    Certainly Johann Rudolf served in the years 1791 – 1796 in the Infanterie-Regiment No. 40, which results from the records you attach, because the commander of this unit in the years 1791 – 1794 was Carl Ludwig von Pfuel, and then in the years 1794 – 1805 Friedrich Wilhelm von Steinwehr.

    You can find out more about the structure and commanders of regiments here:
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Infanterieregimenter_der_altpreu%C3%9Fischen_Armee

    The death certificate of Johann Rudolf also shows that Theresia Hedwig von Hubendorff was his only wife and he had no children other than Wilhelmine.

    When it comes to the birthplace of Johann Rudolf, you must check the baptism records from Rybnik and verify that the information provided in the death certificate is correct.

    Since it was stated that Johann Rudolf was exactly 46 years, 6 months and 8 days old at the time of his death, such an exact age could only be given on the basis of the baptism certificate, perhaps it was in the regiment’s records?

    The search for noble ancestors is not as easy as it may seem. Information about petty nobility is often of poor quality, so finding individuals or families requires a lot of work and effort. Additionally, in your case, when it comes to officers who often changed their stationing places, there is a need to reconstruct their military service.

    In addition, I looked through my materials, unfortunately I found nothing more about the von Hubendorff family. The von Kottulinsky family appear more often, but at this stage of your search, Johann Rudolf can in no way be assigned to any of them.

    Regards,
    Andrzej

    #28410
    andykraut
    Użytkownik

    Hej Andrzej

    Thank you so much for this information. I knew there was information in his death certificates, but I find it hard to interpret them, and there you helped me a lot. I know it is really difficult. At the moment I am going through the church entry (about 1750) from different churches of Rybnik and the villages in the area, which are available on familysearch. I try to read the names, but the entrys are written in latin, so I try to read the baptist name, which is quite difficult. I guess I have to contact the different churches to hear them, if they have birth entrys from 1750 and mabey efter that I have to visit these churches (I wanted to come to Polen at one point in the next few years) I know there is a lot of Kottulinsky about, but I cant find anything more about Johann Rudolf or his family in Rybnik. You mentioned the regiment’s records, where do you think could I find them?. I thought often about if I mabey can find som militar records about Johan Rudolf, mabey I should concentrate more about that. Hubendorf er so diffcult to find, I found som lille information in the “Schlesische privilegirte Zeitung” eller den “schlesischen Adel” von Johannes Sinapius. I appreciate very much your help, you gave me a so much more to work with.
    Best regards Andrea Krause

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    #28412
    Historyk85
    Użytkownik

    Andrea,

    At the moment, only commissioning a paid query in the Archdiocese Archives in Katowice can help, because only there are church records from Rybnik and the surrounding area. Read the Archive page carefully, you’ll learn a lot.

    The archives of the Prussian army burned down in Potsdam in 1944, so there is no chance of finding the documents of the military regiments in which Johann Rudolf von Kottulinsky served. However, I mentioned them, because the person drawing up the death certificate had to calculate its exact age on some basis, so first check Rybnik, and possibly only later its immediate vicinity.

    Besides, the records you find probably come from military records, but for example, do you know exactly in which parish Johann Rudolf and Theresia Hedwige got married? I believe that it is worth trying to find the church record of their wedding because it should contain more information.

    I have a problem similar to yours, for four years I have been reconstructing the genealogy of the family von Stillarsky, von Stylarski, von Stelarski, von Stolarski, rarely with the addition of von Cent (the spelling of the surname is different, but it is still the same family). Its representatives probably came from Hungary to Upper Silesia at the beginning of the 17th century. The work is moving forward, but as I wrote before, it is a tedious analysis of records parish by parish, sometimes I find something, and sometimes for six months nothing. I don’t want to discourage you, but the genealogy of noble families takes a lot of patience and effort.

    In the meantime, check the available lists of officers, maybe you will find something interesting about Johann Rudolf or Carl Krause.
    https://www.sbc.org.pl/dlibra/results?q=Rangliste+der+K%C3%B6nigl.+Preu%C3%9Fischen+Armee&action=SimpleSearchAction&type=-6&p=0

    Regards,
    Andrzej

    #28413
    andykraut
    Użytkownik

    Hello Andrzeja

    I totally agree that it will take a long time, and often there goes month or years before something new happens. Mabey because it is a big puzzle it such a challenge, and that motivates me. My fahter always thought that his fathers family came from Rheinland in West-Germany, because his Grandfather was born there, but actually they came from Berlin and Schlesien, that was a big suprise. I will read the Archive page more closely. I read that there is a fee for some church records, and thats fine by me if it gets me anywhere. I think you are right I will concentrate on to find the wedding entry in “Schweidnitz”, that will be my next goal. So thank you again for all your information and tipps. Wish you good luck with your research.

    Best regards Andrea

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    #28419
    andykraut
    Użytkownik

    Hej Andrzej

    I found something in the headlines of the death certificates from Johann Rudolf, marriage proposal to Theresia and the birth entry from Wilhelmina. In the headline the regiment is written. I looked closer at the certificates in hope of finding the church and I never noticed this before. Does that mean these entrys are from the regiment and not from the church? Though I think there must be som church entrys about the death, wedding and the birth.
    I dont hope I bother you to much with this, but I could imagine it could be interesting.

    Best regards Andrea

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    #28424
    Historyk85
    Użytkownik

    Hello Andrea,

    In an earlier post I wrote that the records you found are military records kept by the regiment in which Johann Rudolf served, so I asked if you were looking for church records.

    Johann Rudolf and Theresia Hedwige certainly got married in Świdnica (Schweidnitz), which is confirmed by a note on this subject in the Silesian newspaper Schlesische Provinzialblätter, 1792, 15. Bd., 6th St .: Juny; link below, information about the wedding can be found on page 558.
    https://www.sbc.org.pl/dlibra/publication/3511/edition/3261/content

    You know the date and place of the wedding, so nothing prevents you from checking whether, being Catholics, they got married in the cathedral church of St. Stanislaus and St. Wenceslaus in Świdnica, and the information about their wedding was also entered into the record books kept by the regiment. Alternatively, it will turn out that they got married in the garrison church and the only trace of it is the certificate of their wedding you know.

    Ask boldly. If I can, I will be happy to help.

    Regards,
    Andrzej

    #28425
    andykraut
    Użytkownik

    Hej Andrzej
    Yes you were right, you mentioned this earlier, I guess I was so excited that I overlooked that. Thanks again for everything, for the links too.

    Best regards Andrea

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    #28432
    Historyk85
    Użytkownik

    Hello Andrea,

    I don’t know if you knew about it, but on June 17, 1793 in Świdnica (Schweidnitz) died von Hubendorf (no first name), who was Premierlieut. in Infanterie-Regiment von Jung Pfuhl. So he served in the same regiment as Johann Rudolff von Kottulinsky! The time, place and the fact that in 1792 Johann Rudolf married Theresa Hedwige there, suggest that she must have been related to the deceased, maybe even she was his sister or daughter?

    I was wondering why the wedding of Theresa Hedwige from a family whose lands goods were located near Wrocław (Breslau) took place in Świdnica (Schweidnitz), but now “everything” is starting to fit.

    Link, information about the death is on page 570.
    https://www.sbc.org.pl/dlibra/publication/3554/edition/3296/content

    In addition, carefully analyze the information provided in the Schlesische privilegirte Zeitungen. 1769 [Jg.28], which coincide and complement the information I provided about the von Hubendorf family at the beginning.

    Regards,
    Andrzej

    #28433
    andykraut
    Użytkownik

    Hej Andrzje

    I didn´t know for sure, but that´s really interesting,.I thought at they must have been another familymember Hubendorf in Schweidnitz, because I found at death certificate of a young Hubendorf from 1790 who died only 3 years old (Carl Joseph William v. Hubendorf), where the mothers name is Christiana Hennigin but the father it says only Lieutent v. Hubendorf. It must be the same v. Hubendorf, som died 1793. I just think it is strange that there is no first name,

    I think it was mabey Theresias brother, if you look how young the child is. Mabey I should search for Christiana Hennigin.

    I can see what you mean that the wedding took place in Schweidnitz, if v. Hubendorf was her father. Mabey it was that he and Christiana (Theresias mother?) got a child when they were quiet old? I dont even know how old Theresia is. I only know that Johann Rudolf was 42 when they married. Mabey she was very young?

    Your last entry gives me a absolut different way to look at it, thats great.

    Best regards Andrea

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    #28439
    Historyk85
    Użytkownik

    Hello Andrea,

    Finding the death certificate of this von Hubendorf from 1793 will explain a lot, without establishing his age, it is difficult to say whether he was Theresia Hedwige’s father? It’s hard to say because he might as well have been her brother or distant relative. At this stage of the search, it simply cannot be clearly stated.

    The available materials also show that the von Hubendorf family or some of them fell into serious financial problems, which could have forced some family members to live with their distant relatives.

    It would be worthwhile for you to get to know the contents of these archives, as they may contain a lot of valuable information about the von Hubendorf family.

    Geheimes Staatsarchiv Preußischer Kulturbesitz
    I. HA GR, Rep. 46 B, Nr. 1024; Hubendorf (1761 – 1771)
    Enthält: Gesuch der Witwe Maria von Hubendorf um Konfirmation des Kaufes ihres Gutes Grunau; Beschwerden des von Hubendorf wegen Sequestration seines Gutes Schöneich.

    If you currently have access to the resources of the Ancestry portal, could I ask you to download a few metrics for me, namely:

    Adam Carl Joseph V. Stilarsky
    Lieutenant V. Stilarski dd mm 1788-1789 city, Wehlau, Ostpreussen, Deutschland (Germany)
    Juliane Wilhelmine Caroline V. Stillarskÿ dd mm 1814 city, Schlesien, Deutschland (Germany)
    Friedrich Carl Herrmann V. Stilarskÿ dd mm 1814 city, Schlesien, Deutschland (Germany)

    Hope I’m not asking too much, but these are new records, unknown to me, and I don’t have access to this page anymore.

    Regards,
    Andrzej

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