George Gloss
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George Gloss
UżytkownikWhat you say agrees with what my Great Grandad said anyway. He entered back into Germany (Poland) around late 1940’s (a year after the polish army capitulated, he was a Kapral), after escaping and walking back from a soviet camp, caught at the border, and then processed at Treblinka (interestingly, before it became a ‘death camp’), who’s authorities determined that he was an ethnic german. According to documents I have, he was conscripted at the same period when the list was introduced (May 1941). An official (presumably back at Myslowice) told him ‘you must join the German Army’, based on the fact his father had been a lower officer in the imperial army. He apparently was willing to go on the train to the work camp with the Poles but his strict mother dragged him off. His older brother was more resistant (and this showed in his communist sympathies after the war), and scolded him saying something like ‘how can you join the enemy which has invaded our country?’ and so went to the camp for a period, before later being entered into the Army. It was said they spoke German in their childhood and had to learn polish after the Polish state took over the area after 1921, and after the German state took over, they limited polish speaking to only inside the home.
What category do you think he was put into?
Has there been any updates on information available about the list itself?UżytkownikHello,
I am grateful for your reply however I have seen this map before.
My question is rather ‘if’ the street is the same street that is written in my documents, or if it is a coincidence – because in all written references (marriage, Red Cross, hospital, military) it is noted as ‘Brzenskowitz’/Brzeczkowice instead of Birkental/Brzezinka or Morgi.Best regards,
George GlossUżytkownikHi Ola (I love your name),
Thank you for this. It’s interesting how polish/Silesian works.
I did notice that Wygorzelle wasn’t on the register I just assumed it wasn’t significant enough, i will look into it.
Also, in regards to what Andrzej said, it looks like he was right that Janotas came from Berun, as Dr Schäffer from the archdiocese archive in Katowice forwarded onto me an extract of an ironworks/smelter/smithing document from Paprocany (originally right next to Urbanowice) in 1737, which mentions a Jendres (archaic variant of Andrzej) Janota, a smith from Berun. Possibly an ancestor.I found it funny how over time towns move away from eachother as they expand. Meyer’s gazetteer is helpful for getting an understanding what the area was like closer to that period.
Best regards,
GeorgeUżytkownikOh wow that is fascinating. Sussana Glas in her death certificate also had the surname Janocina. What’s with this? How did Janota transform into Janocina for women? And this clears up the fact that Walek bulla cannot be the same as Valentin Janota, the brother of Adalbert. But this is curious because Valentin Janota’s (who died in 1803 so that makes sense) second son was Stanislawski Buła, born in 1788. So they were using both surnames. It’s a mystery yes but you’ve provided another piece.
UżytkownikPart 2: I’m only just noticing this now but it seems the Jozef had different aliases. How is this possible? If it’s the same person? I assumed this only happened when you married a widow and lived with her
UżytkownikHey Andrzej,
That’s so interesting, I guess it makes good sense I should have thought of that because my own surname is often confused as Glohs because the long s is the same as the h in Kurrentschrift.It is recorded on the handwritten copy of the property records, given to me by the Katowice archdiocese archive, under where Walek Bułan owns the farm in 1804 and onwards, it says that a Mateusz Janeta Al. Przybylla (also spelled as przibilla) is the administrator of the farm.
And the neighbouring Jozef Kozok also has a Kammermann called Morcin Kozok Al. Bednorsz.Best regards,
GeorgeUżytkownikHello,
Interestingly, when I looked in the Carolingian document for the stadtlein Bierun, unless I’m interpreting it incorrectly, the spelling is more like ‘Janotsa’ there. Any idea why it would drop the s from this ? Doesn’t seem like a regular polish suffix.
UnderlinedAlso I realise the ‘Kammermann’ Baliff for the farm at 14 was also a Janeta with an Alias. Was the Silesian baliff more like the German or polish version? Was it regular for them to be of the same family? Seems like the neighbours also had kammerleute with the same surname.
UżytkownikMaybe Rosalie was his mothers middle name, but I can’t explain the ‘Johann’/Jan instead of Joseph
UżytkownikHey,
I believe I’ve found it but I need the archive to get back to me about it. There’s an entry in 1903 for a Jan Pikos (which was his mothers surname), maybe it’s the same guy. I know that death certificates can have a lot of errors. One of the indexed as ‘Jan Gloss’ deaths was actually for a Tomas Gloss (which to be fair looked like Janas) and they got the parents names completely wrong (Johann Gloss, Rosalie Pikos), but the birthday and location correct, which was bizarre. And there was no other person with the surname born at that time in that place.
Best regards,
GeorgeUżytkownikGoogle says:
Pikus (also Pikos?) Jewish (from Belarus and Lithuania): nickname from the Belorussian verb pikats’ 'to poke in the face to rebuke to express oneself insolently’ + the agent suffix -us.
Maybe if it’s true this would explain the inbreeding you mentioned?UżytkownikHey Andrzej,
Sorry to push this issue, but I was wondering. Where do you think this Janota in Urbanowitz came from ? if we assume he perhaps married a daughter of Woytek (although there isn’t an Al. Or Vel). It’s confusing to me. It doesn’t help that Wygorzelle is not included in the Carolingian Cadastre, and seemingly no record on ‘previous residents’ on this website.
Also, separately, is it possible certain families came from arriving Prussian soldiers/settlers with Frederick or is this rare? I notice the name Pikos is perhaps Lithuanian, which isn’t near Silesia.
Regards,
GeorgeUżytkownikHi Andrzej,
Wow, I didn’t expect such an informative reply so quickly! Thank you very much for this. It’s very interesting. It’s funny you mention Klos because I found this misspelling of Gloss as Kloss written in a Brzezinka document hehe. This information is so interesting to me.
A lot of this genealogical work no doubt requires making guesses and working through theories, I managed to do this successfully up until the ackerbauer Joseph Glas/Gloss, with later documents to confirm all the links. The reason I came to the conclusion that his father must have been Adalbert is because I was informed there was no baptised for a Joseph Glas in Bierun parish for his birth years, instead there was a baptism of a Joseph Janota (to a father Adalbert Janota apparently, but I haven’t seen this record, I assume the archive is correct) with a mother Glas, so we accepted this direction.It’s a bummer that we are missing these crucial baptism books from 1742- 1763 to confirm things.
The amount of Marianna Pikoses and other pikoses married to people of this family is peculiar yes.My interest (more like obsession now) into my silesian paternal roots came from the fact that until recently none of my family knew much about my Great grandfather Karl Anton Gloss from Janow, Myslowice. But since, I have collected a ton of photographs, reconnected with the polish family and have a plethora of information about the man and his interesting family history. He came over to England in the polish army in the west and didn’t teach his children German or polish so it’s been a fun learning experience.
Best regards,
GeorgeUżytkownikMore resources.
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